Hobbit: The Spence Edit, The

I like Hobbit 2, but Hobbit 1 (with the exception of the dwarfes entering Bilbo's home and the whole sequence with Gollum) and 3 I find to be completely uninteresting and nowhere nearly as good as the Lord of the rings movies.

So I was interested how Spence could improve the Hobbit-movies by forming them into a single movie. First and most important, does it work as a single movie? Yes! Sure it's a bit long with nearly 3,5 hours, but it works really well and just shows that it should have been a single movie from the get-go.

Is it now as good as the lord of the ring movies? Imho, no, they are still way better, but it's an improvement over the theatrical versions.

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What Spence did was to remove Azog as an instrument to create tension, imho that is a good decision. Sure it reduces a bit the tension now, but Azog and his orcs are so uninteresting that it hurts.

And he removed the love-triangle between Legolas, that elve-woman and one of the better looking dwarfes. In Hobbit 2 it added some sort of romanticism, and it created a story-strand where the elve woman leaves her kin to fulfill her true love, how she heals that dwarfe and how the dwarf gets killed in front of her in the end. That was actually something that enriched Hobbit 2 and 3. I like a little bit of romantic feelings in movies, the things about sacrificing things for love... but it should be credible and natural.
The problem was that it was unbelievable from the start and it involved only secondary characters, so I think overall it was a good decision to cut it all out. Sure some feeling is missing then, but either these things are done in the right and credible way or not at all.

The other big removement was the "prophecy"-story strand, the lake people believed in the prophecy that one day a dwarfe king would come to reclaim the mountain and its riches. This is removed (although Thorin actually uses the word prophecy in his speech, but that was probably not easy to remove), and many would probably welcome it. But for me, this was one of the things that actually worked well in Hobbit 2, namely that the Lake people living in poor conditions develop some hope that things could change for the better, because of the prophecy. In Hobbit 2 that was the main motivation that they would help the dwarfes, give them weapons and set them free again.

Here the main-motivation is only the hope for the gold in the mountain, but without the prophecy-belief, why would they believe that 13 dwarfes would succeed where whole armies failed before? Imho the prophecy-element was crucial to explain the hope of the Laketownpeople and imho it added that nice consequence that the belief in the prophecy brought them complete ruin by waking up the dragon who then destroyed their town. This is one change/removal that I felt was hurtful.

The other problem was Bard shooting down the dragon. This problem has nothing to do with Spence's edit, but with the theatrical shooting of the scene and lazy writing. All people from Lake-town know from experience that the dragons skin can't be hurt by mere arrows, and yet what does Bard do? He goes up with merely his normal bow and normal arrows and thinks he can do the impossible!

It would have been different if he went up with the clear thought and memory that the dragon lost some of his skin in the encounter with his ancestor, and so goes up with the clear will to try to shoot an arrow into that wound, and then tries, misses, tries, misses, but then succeeds.

But thank goodness, that the scene with the molten gold and the golden dragon was removed and the dwarfes triyng to fight the dragon...

The big battle at the end was nicely shortened, which for me was most welcome. The only problem was the appearance of the eagles and Bilbo saying "The eagles are coming"..., but he hasn't met any eagles in this edit, so why does he associate anything with them or knows anything about them?

The other, but forgiveable problem was in the first third of the movie, where the dwarfes have horses in one scene and then not, and then they have horses again...

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Verdict:
It works as a single movie, it's overall better than the theatrical version (though still not nearly as good as the lord-of-the rings movies, but that is the source's problem), and proves that the Hobbit-story should have been told in a single movie from the get-go.

Editing is mostly great and smooth. Great work, Spence!

This is what I wanted to see when I first heard that The Hobbit was going to be made into a film. I am a very critical viewer, even when it is one of my favorite films. There are still a number of things that I would have cut.
-When talking about the Took side of Bilbo- the golf reference always seemed out of place to me even in the book.
-I would have removed ALL traces of the rabbits and sled.
-Galadriel only in the scene against Sauron.
-I'd like to see her not look and sound like the scene in The Lord Of The Rings (that was supposedly how she'd be when using the Ring Of Power).
-I would have kept a bit of the Stone Giants, just enough to see them as part of the thundering storm- but not when the company is on them.
-I like how other edits have handled the drop into goblin town- short. And I think the floor should have given way as soon as Sting shown blue.
- I like how the goblin king dies in the theatrical release. I'd leave out his dialogue, though, during his confrontation with Gandalf. His death was supposed to be the main reason for the goblins chasing the company to the pines.
-I'd like all of Beorn's scenes to remain, although I can understand why it was cut.
-I don't think that we should see the Ring having any sway over Bilbo in The Hobbit at all.
-Rivendell needs several more cuts. Once they arrive I would cut to Gandalf's greeting with Elrond, then skip to Bilbo talking with Elrond.
- I'd cut out the dwarves eating in Rivendell. I don't know why elves are portrayed as vegetarians in Jackson's movies. The elves ate meats in the book.
-Leave out the line about the exact same moon-phase needed for reading the map- too coincidental. Just have the line about needing to be read in the moon light.
-Keep dwarves in trees scene (without the moth) and no one coming down out of the trees.
-Keep the line where Gandalf tells Bilbo that his sword will glow blue but cut the part about it doing so because it is elven. Not all elven swords glow blue.
-I still don't like the ring twirling in the air and falling right on Bilbo's finger. Although I'm not sure how this scene could be done another way with just editing.
-Jackson tends to have an awful lot of light in all his "dark" scenes. I would darken most, especially the encounter with Gollum.
-Get rid of the giant worms.
-Azog falling in water and then jumping up through the ice and ready to fight. Talk about demanding a suspension of dis-belief. I'd skip that whole part and just go to the death scene.
Although I've listed a lot of cuts that I personally would like to have seen, that's not to say that I thought this was a bad edit in any way. It was fantastic. I'm just super critical. There were many things that I loved in this FanEdit.
+ Loved how this edit started with the smoke ring and the older Bilbo at the end of the film. That worked out great!
+ I like the Eagles in the battle. After all, aren't they one of the five armies?
+ I thought all of the cuts during the unexpected party were wonderful.
+ Love how Radaghast's earlier scenes were cut.
+ I don't miss the White Council meeting.
+ I like most of the goblin town edits.
+ I thought all the scenes involving Legolas or Tauriel being cut was done well. I think the FanEditor's decisions on what should stay and what should go were wisely done.
+ barrel sequence edits - perfect!
+ All the scenes that were removed involving Laketown really improved the film. Excellent!
+ No dialogue from Alfrid is so much better.
+ I like how Dol Goldur was wrapped up before Smaug.
+ Of course the dwarf confrontation with Smaug in the mountain had to go!
+ No molten gold dragon!
+ The edits surrounding Bard's slaying of the dragon were perfect. Way better than the ridiculous scene with Bard's son involved that was in the theatrical release.
+ Love how Kili's death was handled.
+ Like how the auction was kept.
All in all, these painfully inadequate movies have been edited into one great film that is now one of my favorites.
Great work, Spence, and Thank You.

Wow! Wow! Wow! Wow! And did I mention, Wow!

As someone who's enjoyed The Hobbit movies while still acknowledging the flaws, I'll admit, I've been skeptical as to how a single film would've worked. Well, that skepticism has been put to rest. This edit streamlines all three films beautifully. In fact, I can honestly say that I felt like I was watching a film adaptation of The Hobbit as opposed to a prequel trilogy to The Lord of the Rings.

I have a few nitpicks such as I would have liked to have seen the Necromancer excised entirely but what *is* still there makes for a nice little taste of what's to come in The Lord of the Rings. Also there are some moments that come out of nowhere that the other reviewers have brought up but overall, if you wanted to see The Hobbit but balked at the idea of it being three movies, this is the edit for you.

I had the crazy idea to watch the Hobbit again. The 10-hour trilogy movies are completely un-re-watchable to me, so I searched for a fanedit. I tried watching the Maple Edit and the Bilbo Edition, both are 4-hour edits that try to stay close to the book. I dropped them both because in trying to keep true to book they keep too much silliness from Peter Jackson. There is a 2-Hour edit (!) that's actually very interesting but it's too rough and amateurish and it also tries to follow the book. Sadly, the way Peter Jackson made these movies, following only the book IMO produces bad results.

The Spence Edit doesn't try to be true to the book, it just tries to make a good movie out of this bloated mess, and what do you know, it succeeds! There's actually a decent 3-hour movie in there that can act as a fine prequel to LOTR. I really like how Azog was handled and generally the parts of the movie that nod to LOTR and weren't in the original book. Most of the silly antics are gone. Thank God the whole pine-cone-grenades and Eagles scene was completely removed. Those frustratingly long and boring combat scenes in the last part were also thankfully trimmed quite a bit. Frankly the only scene I missed was this great idea I saw in the 2-hour edit that added the whole Misty Mountains song with scenes from Erebor's demise as a flashback.

There's only one hiccup in the version I watched, the sound. The voices are just too low and especially in scenes where much is happening, they can become unintelligible. Something was probably lost with the transition from 5.1 to stereo. Aside from that this edit looks flawless. I can't say this is now truly a great movie, because I don't think P.Jackson's self-indulgent Hobbit trilogy can ever be a great movie, or movies, no matter how great the editing is. But this is the best take on the trilogy I've seen so far, a decent LOTR prequel and a fantastic fan-editing venture.

My critique, in "play-by-play" style:
- The edit opens with a short pan across Hobbiton and then immediately goes into a conversation between Bilbo and a newly-arrived Gandalf. Gone is the Prologue, older-Bilbo's narrative, and Frodo.
- Cutting "are there any other wizards?" line makes Radagast's intro later a little sudden
- I missed Balin's explanation of sword names since it helps explain "Sting" later on
- Very good keeping Azog/Sauron conversation--helps promote the idea of "bigger things afoot"
- Trolls handled well, good work removing most of the juvenile humor
- I personally missed bombur breaking the bench, but that scene isn't necessary
- Excellent editing of Bilbo no longer falling from cliff
- Goblins handled well--especially the cut to Orcrist falling to ground with the other swords. very clever. Like most edits, the Goblin King's fall down into the depths is assumed to be his end.
- Subtle but excellent edit of finding of the ring. In Spence's edit, the sword illuminates the ring, but Bilbo doesn't notice it at first--then he does a double take and stoops to pick it up. In the Maple Films edit (which is my go-to edit of the Hobbit Trilogy), he just does the double take--we don't get the slow reveal of the ring on the ground. It's a very quick edit, but it really made a big difference toward not making the finding of the ring so sudden (in the original cut, he sees gollum drop it, which introduces a host of problems of its own--the least of which is that Bilbo really is a thief since he knows the ring belongs to Gollum long before meeting him).
- There's a huge cut of the entire "Out of the Frying Pan" chapter as well as the Eagles and Beorn. There's a -lot- of material gone, and while I would have preferred to keep Beorn added, the cut works fine for the most part.
- One thing -not- explained by the previous cut is the rather noticeable plot hole of them suddenly having ponies again.
- Why didn't Gandalf warn them to "stay on the path"?
- For a moment, the elven musical theme shows up during the spider fight--a very strange choice. It didn't sound bad, but it certainly didn't fit.
- Ha, you just had to keep one, over-the-top, Legolas-surfing-on-a-spider scene in there, didn't ya?
- As expected, Tauriel and the love triangle is gone
- A minor plot hole: Kili's injury is not explained, but I suppose it's not too much a stretch to just assume it was a consequence of tumbling down a ramp and through rapids in a barrell.
- The pacing feels a bit fast for Bard to just show up suddenly.
- Radagast kind of comes out of nowhere since we've neither heard of nor seen him before he shows up in the high fells. As mentioned earlier, might have been nice to retain the Bilbo/Gandalf conversation of "are there any other wizards?"
- Balin's line "only a black arrow could have pierced the dragon's hyde" is retained, but his son explaining that Girion left a weak spot is cut. This has consequences later...
- Excellent work getting rid of Alfrid and minimizing the master. Pacing is a bit quick, but ok
- Also as expected, the Dwarves are never separated in Laketown, and there is no orc/elf raid
- The cuts from sunset to moon to keyhole are a bit rough, the pacing too fast
- There are some audio issues when bilbo enters Erebor--the echoes (presumably the surround channels) are a good several seconds early
- Awesome work with Bard simply using his last arrow to slay Smaug. The extreme nature of the many cuts to Laketown lead to some issues, though. Since we were earlier told that only a Black Arrow could do the job, and Bard was never informed of the weak spot since the dialog with his son is cut, he effectively doesn't know there's a weak spot (in the book, a little bird told him--literally...). This means that when he busts out of that window, carrying only a standard bow and a quiver of standard arrows, he's essentially facing down the dragon out of desparation, trusting only to luck. This doesn't quite sit right with me. Another problem is that, since the Master was never properly established as a mustache-twirling villain, I kind of feel bad seeing the poor guy get squashed by a falling ex-dragon. There's only a split second to note that his barge is filled with gold. At the same time, he can't -not- be killed since it's necessary for the Master to be out of the picture in order for Bard to progress to leader of his people.
- Thorin's madness comes on a bit quick...
- Good handling of battle, other than the somewhat silly part where the moose scoops up a half-dozen orcs and Thranduil beheads them all in one swipe.
- The battle at Ravenhill handled very well--even explains how he got orcrist back w/out too much wacky Legolas antics.
- I would have preferred to have Radagast completely removed from the final rally (as he has been in other edits--the Maple Films edit, for example).
- Good cut of "I lost that ring anyway"--Bilbo lying to Gandalf just didn't seem right
- Interesting idea, moving older-Bilbo's narrative to the end, but I think I prefer it as an opener as it has been in other edits.

The Spence edit is an extremely innovative and high-paced edit. It comes in at a half-hour shorter than many book cuts while still retaining many of the non-book cut scenes (the White council, Dol Guldur, High Fells, etc). Visual quality is fine, but the musical score can often cover the center (voice) channel. Still, it's amazing how much material has been packed in while keeping the flow mostly intact. I personally prefer a Book Cut, but this is a very well done edit--a joy to watch, if for no other reason than to see Spence's impressive work.