Terminator 2: Hands of Fate

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(Updated: September 07, 2012)
Enjoyment
 
8.0
September 10, 2009 @ 11:18 pm

Awesome edit. The beginning was great. However, I felt that the thumbs up at the end wasn’t sappy more than it was a robot who couldn’t learn new protocols displaying his new-found protocol “emotion”. I think it was a very powerful scene and got lost in the editing due to all the other hollywood crap throughout. Good edit, gave it 8 out of 10.
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(Updated: September 07, 2012)
Overall rating
 
9.0
Audio/Video Quality
 
8.0
Audio Editing
 
10.0
Visual Editing
 
9.0
Enjoyment
 
9.0
September 2, 2009 @ 8:19 pm

Let me preface this review by stating that I am huge Arnold Schwarzenegger, James Cameron and Terminator fan. I have seen T2 dozens of times and have owned about 6 releases of the film over the years (currently 3 – ultimate edition dvd/xtreme edition dvd/skynet edition bluray). This does indeed bias my review because many of my comments are tied to my love of the original film and how ‘I would have done it’ had I been the editor. As always, no disrespect is intended. Only a constructive criticism and review.

!!!SPOILER WARNING!!!

First off, we have a DVD9 release, very nice. this allows for a complete release with all the bells and whistles of a commercial DVD. even without popping the disc in I know this is a cut above the normal fanedit DVD.

Upon start up we are greeted with a slick image of an Owl and the words “A ThrowgnCpr Production” with some nice bass groove. This is nice and adds to the production value IMO. Then Bang! we get launched into a really fantastic menu intro clip in near HD quality followed by the interactive menu typed onscreen in terminator-vision. Amongst the options are more features than some commercial releases: play, chapters, bonus features, etc. each with a sleek motion transition to accompany the action. This is without a doubt the best fanedit menu I have seen all year.

The Main feature:

Technical: As mentioned before Throw chose to use the Ultimate Edition DVD as his source which was his only pitfall. The Ultimate edition released back in 2000 looks poor when compared to newer transfers/releases of the film. The image is blurry at times (on my 40″ 1080p HDTV the white intro credits were very soft and showcased lots of color bleed) and looks less good than what we have seen in other transfers. It isnt what I would call unwatchable, but it looks worse than it should (or could) have. There were also instances of judder noticeable when slow camera pans across stationary objects occurred (see: the intro w/ flames on playground equipment and the fence at Pescadero) These observations aside, the picture was clear and stable throughout and was quite watchable.

The Edits:

Many tiny changes have been made and I felt most were for the best. the addition of “Hands of Fate” where we normally see “Judgment Day” in the credits was masterful, my jaw dropped with jealous zeal when I saw it slam up with seamless integration. I dont know how Throw accomplished this but damned if it isnt beautiful.

Custom credits allowed ‘fanedited by TC’ another seamless integration. The new bad to the bone scene makes me smile because other than the first time I saw the original I have always disliked the silliness of the scene. Throw's reconstruction of the scene from the ground up is really something special even if it adds nothing to the narrative besides concealing the t-800′s allegiance this time around. I did feel that the sound effects/dialog needed to be louder here though as they seemed (to my ear) a little low in the mix. but I’ll take it, the score from T1 works wonders here and masterfully calls back to the original terminator film.

Removal of Robo-humor throughout helped the film but I think the editor should have gone further. the ”stand on one leg” scene could do without johns “put your leg down” line and the smile scene is always painful to watch. its sooooo slapstick and fails to work for me every time. I know the point is to show the T-800 is learning but I still hate that horse face smile.

Other instances of audience winking/robohumor removal puzzled me (this is where ‘I would have done it different’ comes in). The “model citizen” line from Silberman seemed to cut too late -I would have cut on Sarahs face, rather than as Silberman begins to turn. The “Trust Me” Arnold line in Cyberdyne (I feel) cuts too late also, as we see John beginning to run to Arnold to stop him from killing humans. I would have cut earlier, but thats just me. I also felt the Kyle Reese dream sequence played funny. I wish I could better articulate my feelings here but i cant, something just felt off.

I only raise these issues to better illustrate my personal bias. I feel it would be unfair to not explain where I am coming from even if personal bias is usually something you dont want in a review, a classic like T2 is impossible to remove bias from the equation. Otherwise the edits are spot on and really benefit the film, I didnt for a second miss the “No Problemos” the “Chillout Dickwads” and the “Hasta La Vista Baby’s” great work!

Custom end credits were very smooth, almost too smooth, and looked very crisp compared to the films intro text. I love the attention to detail by adding yourself in twice (that I caught) as well as the fanedit.org and ThrowgnCpr Produtions logos. Very well done. I was caught off guard when I saw my handle in the credits. I dont know what I did to deserve that honor, but I thank you all the same as it was a very pleasant surprise.

The Bonus Features:

Wow, for a fanedit, there's a truckload of material here the featurette focusing on the sound reconstruction of the bad to the bone sequence is the crown jewel. its informative and interesting, well narrated and a great example of how fanediting can be used to alter/enhance a scene. Even though its a few minutes long IMO this is right up there with the commentary track on Attack of the Phantom. Required viewing for any aspiring editor.

Easter Eggs:

Great stuff from SNL/30 Second Bunnies/GNR I havent seen the ‘Toonces’ skit or the ‘You Could Be Mine’ video in YEARS and never saw the ’30 Second Bunnies’ before. Nothing remarkable about this material other than its inclusion to round out a full package.

Overall this is a great package for Fanedit fans as well as Terminator fans. We get a great edit of a classic film and pile of features not previously released on the plethora of Terminator DVD’s over the years.

Editing: 9 of 10 As I mentioned there were no technical issues in the editing only things I would have done differently
Entertainment: 9 of 10

Image & Video Quality:
Image quality was less than optimal. The source material wasnt the best choice but it was still enjoyable and not too distracting. some minor judder in certain camera pans.
Video Quality: 7 of 10

Audio Editing & Audio Quality:
Seamless, great editing from start to finish. my only quip is the levels on the reconstructed scene seem slightly low.
Audio Quality: 9 of 10
Audio Editing: 10 of 10

Presentation:
Best DVD authoring I have seen all year. Fantastic menu w/ full transitions. A truckload of extras and smooth near HD quality motion menus.
Presentation: 10 of 10

Final Result: 8 of 10 for me
A few minor issues hold this back from being a perfect edit but most are technical in nature and do not reflect on the editing and enjoyment of the film. This is a fantastic take on a classic and provides yet another option for us folks who have seen this film in 3 different versions (more if we count ADM/Tubes/Scaperat’s edits ;) ) Required viewing for T2 fans.
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(Updated: September 07, 2012)
Overall rating
 
7.0
Audio Editing
 
8.0
Visual Editing
 
7.0
Enjoyment
 
6.0
August 14, 2009 @ 10:07 pm

T2HOF cut reactions
I'll preface all of this by saying I'm a HUGE Terminator fan and I really don't know that I think Terminator 2 needs any FanEditing besides the edit that puts the theatrical ending at the end of the special edition. I have a lot of faith in James Cameron as a filmmaker and storyteller (except Titanic and I'm not yet sold on Avatar.) But with Terminator I think he was pretty much spot on for every frame with a few notable exceptions. With that said, here are my thoughts on this FanEdit.

(after reading Captain Khajiit’s reactions I must say he is much more glowing than I will be.)

–Bad to the Bone scene: This worked a lot better than I thought it would. My only gripe is the choice of music cue. Culling music from "The Terminator" was certainly a good instinct, but the problem is that even though both scores are by Brad Fiedel they are stylistically and audio quality-wise hugely different. And it seems obvious to me that the way the sequence is shot and edited is for "Bad to the Bone" and the editing here still reflects that. I understand the instinct to change this scene, though I'd wobble back and forth every time I watched the movie on whether I loved it/hated it. I think it was less about The Terminator and more about winking at the audience because this movie was pretty much Arnold's epitome as an action star.

–Sarah Connor's new introduction. Hated this cut. Before, the scene successfully introduces the audience to a vastly different, much more pathological Sarah Connor than we saw in 1984. I also disagree with cutting "How's the knee?" I understand the thought that it contradicts her "good behavior" mentioned later in the film, but consider this: she can see that she's on display to these med students as Silberman's circus freak star attraction. Silberman made his career off of her and she knows it. So by mentioning the knee incident, even if it was over 6 months ago, she's getting slight but successful payback by creating an awkward situation for him which actor Earl Boen successfully communicates in the original. From a technical standpoint, the scene feels incomplete, there are shots of Sarah that go on for too long, and it's obvious there are things missing because we learn nothing about Sarah's character, really just her situation. Also, disagree with cutting the guards beating Sarah afterward, but I’ll explain that mostly with my reaction to the guard licking scene.

–Kyle as the silent messenger. This scene in the Special Edition is one that I actually DIDN'T like and I understand why it was cut in the theatrical edition. It feels tacked on and like an unnecessary link to the original that will only confuse those who haven't seen it. I love me some Kyle Reese, but he doesn't need to be in T2 as anything more than a mention. That said, I do appreciate the intention of editing this scene. I like the intention of the newly edited sequence quite a bit, actually it makes the repeated dream more abstract and frightening. However, I still think the scene should probably be cut in its entirety. BUT, I appreciate the intention!

–Silberman's "Model citizen" I can go either way on this, but I DO think it's a nice line that gives us some valid insight into Silberman's character. This line tells us that Silberman is always aware that he will have an audience watching with the Sarah Connor case. It hearkens back to the "retroactive abortion" line from T1 and Vukovich's reaction to it. It's clever, funny, and pretentiously stated, much like "Model Citizen". It is Silberman in a nutshell. From a technical perspective, the scene ends prematurely without that line. It doesn't feel like we're leaving the scene quite yet, but then we have a hard cut.

–Recutting of the canal chase. The only cut I really noticed was the fact that Arnold's motorcycle jump was cut. My question is: Why? You fixed the continuity error with the windshield quite nicely but now partially created another in that we don't know how Arnold gets into the lower part of the canal now. At first I thought maybe it was to cut out obvious stunt doubles, but when Arnold pulls around the truck it's still obviously a stunt double, so that's not it. So, why? I guess it's fine to have cut it, but it seems unnecessary and it's a cool bit.

–The dog collar scene. I'm fine with this cut. It's nice to get to see the T-1000 figure out without doubt that it's been owned by the T-800, but then again the sudden hang up is sort of enough to figure that out. Definitely like keeping the creepy fingers in the room, though. It's not really necessary, but it lets us know without doubt that this terminator is slicker and sleeker than the T-800 and is operating on a whole new level. I don’t see the harm in leaving the collar scene in, but I can get behind this I guess.

–Guard licking cut. My problem with cutting out the indefensible behavior of the guards abusing Sarah Connor is this: when she escapes, she beats his face in with the broom handle. If she is merely focused on escaping, all she needs to do is silence and disable. Now, her vicious beating of him and breaking his face, particularly now that he has done nothing wrong, is overkill and makes Sarah Connor a much less sympathetic character. It's much the same argument without the "model citizen" line. Without Silberman's clever quip, when Sarah breaks his arm it once again seems like maybe, just maaaaybe, he doesn't quite deserve it as much and again Sarah becomes unsympathetic.

–"He's my friend" cut. I thought I would hate this cut, but I don't. I actually think it works quite well. The only problem it creates is that we lose a little bit of John's character in that by saying this Terminator is his friend it gives us some insight into his psyche and lets us know that, while he IS John Connor, great military leader, he is also still a young boy who craves attention and affection. He is still human, and not just a strategy calculator. It also detracts slightly from setting up Arnold as an odd father figure to John for Sarah's V.O. later.

–Cutting jive talking in the car. If you're going to cut "Hasta la vista", then this makes sense. But, the car jive talk endears the T-800 to us as a character and again lets us know that John is still a boy and wants his friend to be a little less lame. Agreed that the original scene is a little too cheesy, though. In my mind, however, the cheese doesn't overpower the insights into character, so the scene would stay. Agree to disagree!

–"Trust me" cut. Yeah, this basically works. Still, it seems odd that John or Sarah don't speak up at all. The phrasing "Take care" of the police seems ambiguous that I would have said something in the same situation. The delivery is a little corny and wreaks of "Trailer shot! Trailer shot! Won't this be cool in the TRAILER?!" (which, coincidentally, it was). It's a minor quibble, though this basically works. I just don't know that it was necessary, really. It seems to create a minor problem that isn't really worth it just to remove some "cheese".

–"Hasta la vista, baby" cut. If you cut the jive talk, this line has to go, too. However I would've condensed the duration. You've got this big buildup to the bullet being fired, but the re-framing is odd and noticeable and there's clearly some lacking audio. Maybe some additional foley would have made this work better? I don't know, but it's a bit odd the way it is here. It's also a key moment that lets us know that the T-800 is now something more than a Terminator. He's developing a style, he's LEARNING.

–"I need a vacation." Agree COMPLETELY. I don't know what anyone was THINKING putting this line in there. Just stupid. I actually kind of like that now it plays out like the T-800 is in a bit of program daze. Good job on that one!

–Thumbs up cut. Hated this cut. This is the T-800's arc coming full circle. We see John teaching this to the Terminator out in the desert when Sarah is giving her V.O. The shot itself is a little corny, but this is the most human moment the Terminator has. His final statement to John Connor that is more meaningful than anything that has come before. It's motivated, it's not just tossed in there for some sort of insipid inspirational message. From a technical standpoint this is also one of the most noticeable cuts made to the original film. It's a pretty hard cut.

–KUDOS to using the Theatrical ending. The SE ending was lame to the max and I'm glad they didn't use it in theatres. Would've totally ruined everything that came before.

I'm not a big fan of giving FanEdits numerical ratings, but I guess I must–see below. I didn't care for this edition of T2, but I'm a self-admitted Cameron Terminator purist. T3 and beyond edit any which way you like and it's fine by me :-p.

Editing: 7 out of 10

Video (for AVI version): 7 out of 10–the picture is very soft in the AVI version and often blurry. A more crisp re-encoding of the DVD needs to be done.

Audio editing: 8 out of 10. The re-worked “bad to the bone” was impressive in its totality. However, the mix is off for most of the film. Music is too soft and the bass is often lacking–at least in the AVI version audio.

Entertainment: 6 out of 10. Had it not robbed or unsuccessfully re-worked some of the character and character motivations this would be higher. I feel this edit really and truly robs the characters of a lot of needed moments.

Always glad to see another edit submitted to the forum, though! I'm sure others will think it's a big improvement!
K
1 reviews
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(Updated: September 07, 2012)
Enjoyment
 
7.0
August 14, 2009 @ 11:32 pm

*This rating was given before reviews were required*
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(Updated: September 07, 2012)
Overall rating
 
9.5
Audio/Video Quality
 
10.0
Audio Editing
 
10.0
Visual Editing
 
10.0
Enjoyment
 
8.0
August 14, 2009 @ 8:08 pm

Review by Captain Khajiit

**Warning!**

**This review contains spoilers!**

As a serious, no-nonsense edition of the film, this is virtually perfect. One of the intentions was to “create a new experience” and the faneditor certainly succeeds here. A series of subtle purposeful cuts gives the movie a much darker, grimmer feel, akin to that of the original. The scenes with Sarah in the mental hospital are now free of the inconsistencies of the original, and the reworked scene when the visitors peer through Sarah’s cell door has an impressive, almost sinister feel to it. I found it heightened tension and made us empathise with the character.

The rebuilt “bad to the bones” scene was superbly done, and shows exceptional technical skill, although the new voice for the bartender didn’t sound quite gruff enough and didn’t entirely convince me. While this redone scene does give a more menacing aura to the T-101, I still feel the viewer is still left in no doubt that something has changed about him and that the T-1000 is now in the bad guy role. For instance, unlike in the first film, he doesn’t actually kill at the start: he just defends himself, albeit with great force; whereas the T-1000′s first act of impaling a police officer leaves us in little doubt as to what he’s about. The two are obviously competing rather than cooperating to find John (given the T-1000′s contemptuous look and dismissive line at the house when told of the “big guy”: I wouldn’t worry about him!), so I still don’t think Arnie new role is much of a surprise, as it’s the only one he really could have. This is ultimtely down to the fact that the original material was inherently structured and presented in a certain way, not the faneditor. Those who want a more hardcore movie will nevertheless find the new “bad to the bones” scene and the numerous other edits to be definite improvements.

The weaving forth between theatrical and special edition versions is deftly handled, and the faneditor has a good eye for spotting where the added special addition material can enhance the theatrical cut and where it can be safely discarded. The removal of the majority of the cheese definitely helps the pace of the film, and the faneditor consistently implements his vision for the edit through to the very end, although – in my opinion – John teaching the terminator to smile could have gone, the give-me-five routine could have been shortened and I wouldn’t miss the following voiceover either. Nonetheless, this version was meant as a light edit, and as such it will no doubt be seen as a best of both worlds by many fans.

Editing: 10 out of 10 for the editing itself
Entertainment: 8 out of 10 (original theatrical cut 8 out of 10; original special edition 7 out of 10)

Image and video quality: The video quality was excellent all round. 10 out of 10
Audio editing and audio quality: I noticed no hard cuts, and the places where the soundtrack has been rebuilt were seamlessly integrated and completely suit the feel of the film. 10 out of 10
Presentation: If you are a stickler for presentation, this won’t disappoint you. The animated menus could grace an official release, and the extras are implemented in an utterly professional way. I far preferred these menus to those of my Skynet Edition blu ray. 10 out of 10

Overall: 9 out of 10

A hugely accomplished and immensely enjoyable edit! While nothing has yet surpassed the theatrical cut for me, simply because of its pace, my special edition DVD can consider itself terminated.
C
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